Transcript

Rob
Hello and welcome to another edition of the Mental Wealth Podcast. Name is Rob and I’m here with Mukund. How you doing Mukund?

Mukund
How are you? Good afternoon.

Rob
Very. Thank you. Good afternoon. We’re also so delighted to have Scott Sasso with us. Scott is a. Graphic design artist in California, and we’re going to be talking a little bit about the graphic design industry and a little bit about Scott’s career trajectory within the industry itself. And Scott, how are you?

Scott
I’m doing OK how are you guys?

Rob
Doing very. Thank you so much for joining. We really appreciate having you voices on the podcast and it’s so nice to speak to you and it’d be great to learn more about you today. So to to just sort of kick us off a little bit. You had a bit of an interesting courage trajectory in the sense that you started in the film making industry, is that you trained as a filmmaker?

Scott
Well, I went to film school. Been interested in, you know, movie making and how movies were made and everything since I was a kid. Graduated high school, went to Florida State. They have a film school incredibly difficult to get into, so the odds were against me from the start. Didn’t get in. I think I worked as APA on one short film. Had to block traffic for 12 hours. I hated living in the dorms and I actually found the folks at the film school kind of very clicky and. You know, so even before I left FSU after two semesters, I had already gone to an open house at another school called the full Sail in Orlando. They weren’t as well known 20 years ago. There are a bit more high profile now and I liked what I saw so. Left Florida State. Got my two year degree at Community College and that was actually kind of fun. College was like 13th grade and. Went to full sail, you know. Met some cool people. Was. It was a bit of everything that experienced literally the best and worst of times and. After that, you know, a year after I graduated, full sail went to LA, worked as APA, tried to meet people, worked as a you know. Technically a temp employee, but my roommate and I worked at one of the. Movie studios at MGM sort of like file clerks, if you know that, show the IT crowd. Was kind of like that pretty much.

Mukund
PA is a production assistant.

Scott
Yes, yeah, yeah. You know, you work on set. Just doing whatever has to be done. In retrospect, I tried my best. In retrospect, I’m not sure how good I was at it. You know, we had a guy at film school just drill into our heads like, you know, never sit down. Know if you have nothing to. Just take a. Start cleaning something you know. Then you’re doing something. You know, God forbid Spielberg shows up and you’re sitting on the job or something like that would happen, but. Met some cool people a. Of mine convinced me, you know, come back to Florida, come back to Orlando. You know, we’ll do our own stuff. You know, bigger fish in a smaller pond, but I swear as soon as I. Back like as soon as the last piece of furniture was moved into the apartment, I realized I made a big mistake. And I actually was enjoying. And having fun and, you know, things don’t happen overnight. But I was slowly getting somewhere. And you know, my friend and I, thankfully, were still friends. Know the guy I moved in with, but. You know, it was tough there for a. It’s tough when you realize you know the childhood dream that. You thought you had or you know the thing you thought you wanted? Out not to be the thing you wanted after all. And I was 20. Boy. Mid 20s didn’t have a bachelor’s degree yet since full sail at the time. Didn’t have them. I think they introduced their first bachelor’s program when we left, and so I had no other qualifications, which shows you, you know, any parents with young kids listening. Like, yeah, tell them. Have a back up plan because I didn’t have one. So I spent most of my 20s just in a series of go, nowhere temp jobs, some better than others. Then you know eventually moved back in with my parents. And eventually, and you know, I’ll, I’ll cut a. I’ll cut to a few years later, but you know I. I decided to try New York. I was living at my aunt uncles in Jersey City, having also just worked a variety of temp jobs in the city. And realized I’m going to be 30 soon. I can’t be a temp forever, so went back to school. Graphic design. I know I kind of skipped a couple things lit there, but with the filmmaking stuff, it’s like I was always still interested. But I remember at the time looking up quarter life crisis on Wikipedia, and even though I take a little of it with a grain of salt, you know, it was, it was like a list of 10 things. I realized I I I matched 9 of them.

Rob
Was it? Was it purely the age in your in your mind was the age the defining factor about the switch to to to go into graphic design or was it just a series of factors leading? That point.

Scott
Series of factors, but if I had to rank them, age would probably be. One right. I mean, I’m 41 now and. You know, I told some of the students this. Ended. I got my design degree later at Florida Atlantic University and also because had to be in Florida again and IA few years late. A few years after I graduated, I spoke to the alumni or not alumni. As an alumni, I spoke to some of the design students and. Told them don’t underestimate the power. Title. You know in my 20s it was like, what do you do? A temp. I’m a fire clerk. You know, I’m a PA, you know, but to say I’m a graphic designer. Here’s My Portfolio and it’s like people are actually shocked sometimes. Oh my God, he is a graphic designer and it feels good to be able to present yourself. That way versus how I was forced to present myself, you know, in my 20s, you know, self esteem wise and everything, yeah.

Rob
The vigilance intensity of the. We’ve talked before the podcast about the labels. We sort of give ourselves, and we sort of like we define ourselves by whether it’s the job of relationships. And it’s so interesting to hear you say, like, you know, your 20s, you you sort of think about your job and. Hear other people you maybe have friends and family that have. Supposedly in quote, quote UN quote higher ranking jobs in your in your mind. You go like, OK, this person’s doing really well because they. Aceo or? Or whatever it is. And it’s so interesting that we give ourselves these sort of like, very defined things of it, OK.

I have to reach this level right? It’s yeah, absolutely. Agree with you on the point that. You’ve got to this point where you say I’m a graphic designer and now you know I’m. That’s what I am. My. I am a graphic designer. Do you think that’s a a comfort thing or is that a power thing? Do you think that is?

Scott
It’s definitely more a comfort thing. I wouldn’t. I’m partly joking. I wouldn’t associate power with anything I’m doing. That’s me being self depricating. It’s definitely comfort thing, definitely a self esteem thing. And I’ve had my issues with that over the years.

You know I. I’m sure you guys have talked about Imposter syndrome and. You know, I’d say I’ve had that a lot, but every now and then, you know, if I get a kind word from a client or I get a cool job, a design job or, you know, with social media, even though I try not to live on it, we a ll can’t help ourselves and. You know, like you know, you post your stuff and you get feedback and after a while it’s like, damn, this is doing wonders for the imposter syndrome. Like, I don’t even think of that anymore. You know, people see what I’m doing.

Mukund
Quick question I had was when you talk to the other graduates about having a title, you mentioned about you not being happy or not satisfied being a temp within quotes, right?

Because that is a job title. Or maybe not the one you like, right? So is that part of your identity, like you didn’t want the perception of being a temp, or just the job by itself – its not something that you want, you know. I see. That’s 2 things – what others think of you, and what you think of yourself? This is something that we deal with on an everyday basis.

Mostly the perception of others, however small or big that might be, at the back of our mind, is always going. Is guy thinking about me or am I doing the right thing kind of thing? So is it more of what others think of your title or was it for your own satisfaction of your career progression?

Scott
Umm, probably more. What others? Thought and again, I’m not putting down temp work and the agencies especially, you know, ultimate staffing and Apple. I mean, over the years, those they were very good to me and I did meet a lot of nice people. You know through this time, but I suppose it’s how other people perceive you. And it’s like, oh, you’re temp.

Implying like. Oh, then you don’t have a permanent job. Or are you not good enough for a permanent job? And most of my temp work because I hated dealing with. I didn’t want. Do you know phone reception work? So usually I’d be in the back, you know, file clerk file room, which on one hand. Yeah, kind of nice. Doing my thing, you know, and everyone else is up front doing theirs. But it’s like, oh, but even that if I just, it’s like, what do you do? Clark. OK. Deal. And when I was at MGM. Was. And we got to goof around and you know, our boss was wonderful. The name of the department we were in, it was. Records and archives and special projects. So that’s what I would put on my. Not temp, not file clerk, but Clerk Dash records, archives, special projects, because at least then someone might read that and think, oh, special projects. You know, that’s interesting. So there are ways even within that you can present it maybe in a way that’s cooler than it is, I suppose.

Mukund
Titles matter in the film. Like what you are doing now will impact what you’re doing next is that goes OK.

Scott
For better or worse, I mean, I always thought of myself on the extreme periphery. Even now, with graphic design working on posters. Home video. I’m still on the periphery, but I can. It’s cool to be able to say I’m at least part of part of it. Part of the big, you know, the circus.

Rob
And as you said, there’s something you were passionate about. It’s from the very beginning of your career and to be able to be a part of that is got to be gratifying in and of itself because you get to work on things you enjoy working on whichever 1 is. Of striving for at some point.

I was also thinking about like the idea of. Somebody else right now going through that, maybe they are A10, maybe they you know they work in a coffee shop or whatever and. Want to get in in the industry? Is there anything you would sort of say to someone in that position right now from what you went through? There any sort of thoughts you had that maybe you could sort of give? Sort of a different viewpoint on that. Now that you’ve been through that.

Scott
Well, the film industry itself, I mean it really depends what you want to do. You know, I was talking to my old roommate who was thinking about what she ultimately wants to do. You know, wants to act, hasn’t done a ton. You know, when she was asking me about, you know, maybe getting into camera and that department and I told her, then start taking photos, Start learning, start sharing stuff online. Know anything? You just film something for 30 seconds with your phone. You know, it really depends. When I went to film school, I was so hell bent on directing. Even though years later I realized I never quite had the temperament for it. But I kind of miss the forest for the trees. I can’t show my student film to anyone. You know, like it’s some sort of a real, but, you know, my classmates who wanted to do editing, for example and just focused on that. You know, that’s what they’re doing, you know, directing kind of encompasses a lot of that. But as far as graphic design, which is what I do now, I tell people just share your stuff online. You know the students who are graduating. I told them that. Put it online. A you never know who’s going to see it. B. You’ll find your people. I found mine, whether it’s posters because you know what I do is just one small facet of graphic design. Branding and logos and. You know, people who design their own fonts and something you know, whether it’s album covers or fonts or whatever. It’s like you share your stuff. People will find it, you know, and it just it adds up. Is a cumulative thing, and the cliche is true work. Leads to more work, right, you know.

Rob
It’s a win and an attention economy right now, as they say. You get attention and it starts to amplify online and you get recognition from that, right?

Scott
Yeah, I’m not. I’m certainly you know, nothing I’ve done has really gone viral and I look at some of these people on YouTube. It’s like, yeah, why is this person famous, you know? Anything remotely like that. That, but you know, within at least what I do with posters and the home video. You know, because the with me, I’d always been into graphic design too. And only years later, when I went back to school design, did I realize, oh, I could combine the two. Literally in my last semester. For. Like. You know, that’s when I started thinking movie posters and Blu-ray box sets and things like that. And you know, so it’s almost like a niche within a niche because not all. Design involves. You know or anything like that. But no, there’s a nice, tightly knit community online, and I’ve managed in my travels actually over the last couple years to meet a bunch of these people in the flash and where we just ***** about work. But no. It’s. And I like, you know, some projects are better than others and some clients are better than others, but. I’ve, you know, I’ve had the fortune to work with some. Good people and some cool stuff and just to be a part of that, you know.

Rob
What is it? I’m outside of the graphic design industry. Work with. I’m an individual marketing in general, but I work with a design team.

Build websites and we sort. I’m I’m a very small part of that industry and I know the hard work designers do. I’m just wondering what is it that people get wrong about the graphic design industry in general? See, maybe you see portrayed in movies and you see people. Is there anything sort of a cliche that you see that is kind of interesting to you?

Scott
Well, funny enough, someone put together a. Real on YouTube of characters. It’s like, oh, what do you do? A graphic designer. You like characters and movies who are graphic designers, even though you never really see them doing anything. It’s almost become a like a a convenient narrative shorthand. Like we don’t want to show their. But we want to. We want the character to have a decent apartment and a way to make a living and to. Just say they’re graphic designer and the audience will get it. But you know, it’s a lot harder than it might look. You know it’s. One of those like, oh, my kid could have drawn that. It’s like they didn’t. So there you go. I mean, I’ve had people who literally didn’t understand what graphic design was. Was out with some friends. And some friends of friends and this kid just I couldn’t explain it to him, so I just took the Heinz ketchup bottle, you know, see this label graphic design. But with what I do again, it’s very neat.

Know with some of the Blu Rays I work on. Umm, you know, I’ll get you know, it’s like, oh, we want you to design the release, you know, box set for this movie. You know, sometimes I get to do my own art work. Other times it’s someone else’s artwork that I’m sort of fitting into the templates and I’m doing. The layouts and booklets and all that stuff. Every it all has to. Laid out you. And sometimes I get to be a little more. I did Blu-ray art for these Hungarian films and I had to make sure my Hungarian flags were. The warrant and I I’m one of the Blu-ray forums. Someone mentioned that and I appreciated it and I wrote I replied like, you know, believe it or not, some thought actually goes into this stuff. But I think most people just think if you want an elephant, you. An elephant. And there’s your elephant. Although ironically, with AI now, I think you probably could do that.

Mukund
Gonna say so. How much do you think it affected your line of work already or how it’s gonna impact you?

Scott
Hasn’t really affected mine a whole lot. I will say in. Like let’s say I have a photo of a landscape that’s this wide. But you know I need to fill it to a space that’s this wide, you know, that’s where it could come in handy, where I can fill in that gap.

Mukund
Yeah, yeah.

Scott
I’m not generating scenes from whole cloth with the prompts. Not. And if I don’t like the AA results, I don’t use them. But. You know, so that’s what it’s done for me. Haven’t lost any work because of it. You know, I’m sure sooner or later AI will get to the point where you, you know, because I do these booklet layouts. And you know, I, you know, selecting fonts and what colors and things like that. Sure, if I plugged all that into. You know, it would spit out. Oh, you should use this font with this color and they’ll tell me. To do, but I haven’t. Not there. I don’t do that. The only other thing, and I hate saying it because it’s so bad for the environment, right? When I do posters for clients, sometimes I’ll because I like taglines on posters and some clients do. Some don’t. But I’ll go into ChatGPT for instance, and I’ll put in, you know, give me. Me 10 taglines for a movie about. XYZ and it’ll spit out 10 tag lines and most of the time they’re pretty much on par with what you’d find on your average movie poster.

I just did a poster for a indie comedy. It’s a girl who runs her own brewery, and it’s a romantic comedy. Cute kind of thing. So in ChatGPT 10 taglines for a movie about a romantic comedy where the woman owns a brewery. Spat out 10 tag lines. Favorite was love ferments.

Rob
Oh, OK, yeah.

Scott
Client didn’t go with that one, but I actually. But again, if I don’t like the results, I don’t use them. Me, it helps a little bit. I’m not embracing it. Whole cloth and there are serious moral and ethical issues that give me pause. Again, that’s, you know, that’s probably a whole other episode to talk about that stuff, but it’s a brave new world and we’re just living in it.

Mukund
I want to go back with the initial thing you were talking about, Scott, in terms of when you mentioned you move back to Florida from LA, you went through a change that you are not happy about or you have second thoughts about, right?

Could you talk a little bit more about that in terms of what prompted the change, the mental stress you underwent and what kind of help you get out of?

Scott
Well, I mean, I suppose it was almost bound to happen. Again, ever since I was a kid, want, you know, make movies, direct movies, etc. Then you know it’s been so long. But yeah, it’s like moved into. Moved out of LA and it’s also a case of sometimes you don’t know how good you have. Until you don’t, you know, I was goofing off with my friends at work, at our temp job at MGM, and here I am in a new city. And it’s like, oh, damn. Now I got to get a job, like a real job. But yeah, I I remember telling my friend because my roommate, because the idea was we’d make our own stuff. And like, yeah, maybe I don’t want to do that. That’s the only reason he moved there. We were at odds for. We were at each other’s throats for a while, thankfully still friends, but no. I was in, you know, I was in a funk. I forget what job I had at the time, and that’s the thing with. It’s fun to visit, going to Disney World or whatever, but when you live there, it’s really just like any other city. And you know, same routine 9:00 to 5:00, which I realize. Of people do. I’m not saying what I do is better or worse, or you know any. No judgement here. But I don’t know. It was just all a bit of a daze. Routine. I ended up doing Orlando has an improv theater called the SAC Comedy Lab. I started taking improv classes just to get out of the apartment, and I was already kind of into improv. Was a big fan of whose line is it anyway?

The British and the American version. Yeah, and I found I enjoyed it, and that was something to look forward to. You know, every week I did all four. There’s level 1234 did all four. You know, we had a big I had a grad show where you can invite family and friends. You know, it was a lot of fun. And. Again, the quarter life crisis thing. Reading that and thinking like on one hand. Oh crap, it’s true. Like, that’s what it is. On the other hand, realizing a not alone because obviously other people go through that too and B sooner or later the land. And I don’t. I can’t tell you a specific date or time. And it was just a gradual. It’s not like I woke up one morning like. Crisis is over now, but after a while, upon reflection, realizing, oh, I’m things are better now. OK, is maybe the crisis is over now, or at least on the. You were on the tail end of it.

Mukund
Nice.

Scott
And again, I wish I could give you more specific stuff, but I’m trying to think and I have been trying to think. Yeah, it was. Not a pleasant time, but at the same time it’s like I had a roof over my head. Food on the table and I was working the whole time. So most people would. For that kind of situation.

Mukund
It looks like you looked at the positives of your situation to kind of. Any situation has positives and negatives.

Scott
Yeah.

Mukund
We can always say that you know your life is the worst. That doesn’t take anywhere, at least from my personal experience, it looks like you do the other way. You try to put forth the best, or rather take the best options you had.

Taking on the positives, it’s my personal opinion that, you know, I think you did the right things in terms of getting out of the funk as you put it. Is there something you would also recommend or suggest to people in a similar situation in terms of not knowing what they’re doing or trying to, you know, find themselves?

Scott
I would. Well, first I would say if you it’s OK not to know because for most people like how do you like?

Mukund
Right, right.

Scott
People can’t understand. Like how can you not know what you want but? It’s OK and it’s funny. A cousin of mine graduated college a few years ago. And we all went out to lunch and right when we were about to leave, I kind of pulled her aside and I said. Look, if you wake up five years from now and realize you know what? Should have majored in something else. I want to do something else now. It’s OK and don’t let anyone tell you that it’s not because it is OK. So part of it’s that and part of it, you know, definitely.

Mukund
Right.

Scott
Yeah, and granted I could afford, thankfully, to pay for the improv classes. Yeah, finding a hobby. Yeah. Something because it’s like, oh, wanted to make movies. What are you? I like watching movie like it was all moving stuff. You know, there was number. No, there wasn’t another thing or something to Get Me Out of the house. So that helped.

Rob
Mm.

Scott
And meeting, especially in a comedy improv sort of environment where everyone is kind of silly and you know, creative and you know, so that was a good environment. Not saying improv is. Everyone. But yeah, just get out of the house. Volunteer. You know something?

Mukund
Right. Yeah, yeah.

Rob
That’s a great point about finding a new environment because oftentimes were influenced by the things we’re seeing. The things we’re hearing constantly. And it’s it’s true of the being online. When you go to a certain website, you start thinking the same things as the people that you’re reading. And it’s so true about our physical environment too, where like you said, you just go to a different space and your head. Different it becomes, you start to engage differently with the world, right? I think for a lot of people, they don’t. Able to see that option right and that I think that’s something that a lot of people will connect with that idea of, like, OK, I’ve got to try something different because I’m not feeling how I should feel right now.

Scott
Absolutely.

Rob
Yeah. And I’m just wondering, is there anything when you? Were having that experience, is there any feeling that you go? OK, this person really helped me. Is there a person that actually influenced you to make that decision or was that just was it was it coming from yourself to make that decision to go to somewhere else and. Something different.

Scott
Mean. Pretty much all came from me. I mean, and thankfully, my parents were. Super supportive. You know, their thing was always as long as you’re happy. But at the same time, you know, I mean every now and then I’d wonder, like, you know, relatives and uncles, like, if we got together for a family thing. What must they? Like I’m just a file clerk or I left LA and now I’m moving here. What must aunt and uncle so and so think and? On one hand, doesn’t matter. Who cares? And Bi think I mentioned that to my parents and they were like. Same thing it’s. I’m sure they just want you to be happy. You know, that’s it.

Mukund
Right, right.

Scott
You know, no one’s forcing. It’s like, why didn’t you go to medical school or anything? You know, it was never like that for me, thankfully. But yeah, it would have been nice maybe to have another skill in my 20s more than just filing. But and even now if I pass by an office building or you know or in an office building, walking among cubicles. And I just look around like. Been there, you know, they want to do this again, but obviously, what if I have to? Thankfully, I don’t have to right now. I could work from wherever.

Rob
Something I connect with too is the idea of like you’re sort of in a career where you work by yourself a lot. You work in front of a computer, you’re working, and you don’t engage with other people. Do you think you you would benefit from being around people? While you’re working, or do you work better as? A solo head down, getting the creative stuff done.

Scott
I really work better in that situation and it’s funny because. And I’ll try to give you the short version. When I graduated from FAU with a design degree, I got out. Two weeks later, I got a job at a small design agency in Boca Raton. Nice. I only lasted 6 months, but I remember. You know the way it was set up and I never worked for a design agency before. Like this person’s at their desk. Person’s at their. I’m at my desk and we’re all pretty much left alone. Unless you know there’s feedback or you know, client meeting stuff like that. And what’s funny is if you told me when I was a teenager, oh, you’ll get paid to sit at a desk all by yourself and listen to music, headphones, everything great. But ironically, when I was. In school I worked a retail job to help pay for school. Worked at the Container store. They just opened a new one in Boca. I was one of the first ones hired and as silly as it sounds, and I swore I would never do retail again after high school.

 Working with a team. You know, working with a group of people like by the time I got to the design agency and everyone’s just a hermit in their own little corner of the office, it was like, what about the team? It. I was almost more in that gear and I realized, yeah, maybe the agency thing. For me, but there are also tons of agencies and some, you know, no tour the same. And I’m sure there are other agencies that are more like that, but that’s another thing. You know, you don’t really know what kind of work environment you can thrive in until you actually do it. And when you’re learning graphic design, for instance, like they can’t teach you that you know, you just have to experience it. Can’t teach you. The practical office sort of day-to-day of it all, they can teach you the skills, but the rest of you have to learn as you go, and some do it better than others.

Mukund
So you missed the social aspect of it or more. The day-to-day.

Scott
I mean really both. I just remember, you know, at the time like the actual doing of the work was fine. You know the Photoshop. Else was. I never had a problem with that, but it was the bureaucratic part. The should I hand this paper and now or wait, you know? Should I call this person or that person? You know more of that part where it was, you know, what do I do and who do I go to? You know, but again, that’s the part they. Can’t teach you just kind of to feel out. And I never really had a. Real I was always a temp, you know? I. But I’d be here and there for a day for a week. Doesn’t matter, but a real permanent office job. Never really had one. And you know, you don’t know what you don’t know.

Rob
It’s not the idea of just sort of being thrust into a new environment and being told OK, figure it out, and then all of a.

You have to sort of work muscles that have never been worked before. And it’s it’s one of those experiences that, as you said, you only get if you actually do the tangible thing of going to the office or doing the doing improv.

Scott
Oh yeah.

Rob
Building a muscle that you’ve never used before, but you figure it out on the fly, and I’ve always found for myself. Like if I want to try a new sport, for example, I’m always surprised when I can be quite good at something that I’ve never done before because. Your brain has a way of. Of. Using that neuroplasticity right and sort of adapting to the environment.

Scott
Yeah. And when I, it’s like when I interned it in LA for three months, I had a paid internship again. Talented people don’t know how well I fit in. And I felt like, oh, OK, like it was literally like the day I fell. I was finally getting the hang of things turned out to be my last day. OK, I’m getting used to this. It’s like, you know, Scott, come into my. And that was the end of the internship.

Mukund
Wow, did did end early.

Scott
At the time, I thought it did, but no, I don’t think. It was roughly 3 months and that so that ended January 2017. And yeah, technically I’ve been freelancing ever since, but I’ve done some freelance work for other agencies, but from home.

Mukund
Now that you have experienced thin, Coed entrepreneurial. Lifestyle by being your own boss. Could you go back to a desktop 9:00 to 5:00? You think?

Scott
If I had to, I’m not against. You know, if the circumstances were such that that’s what I had to do, I would and probably still take freelance jobs on the side. I saw this funny thing on Instagram recently where it was like, yeah, I was sick of the 40 hour a week, nine to five grind. So I. Freelance and I work 80 hours a week instead. But you get to.

Mukund
Right, right.

Scott
You know, as long time management, that’s another. They can’t really teach you, but you know, again you learn as you go and you know.

Rob
Do you is there any techniques used for time management? I used to be a freelance writer and I usually call the Pomodoro technique where you work for 25 minutes and you take a 5 minute break.

Scott
Interesting.

Rob
For creative work, it’s something to do with how you cook tomatoes. Why it’s called pomod? Dora, you cook them for 25 minutes and then I don’t know exactly the derivation of the word, but yet you work in 25 minutes sprints and you take a 5 minute break and then work for 25 minutes.

Scott
Yeah.

Rob
That is supposed to be how the creative mind. Work. It worked for me, so that’s something that.

Scott
I seem to do both and you know they, you know, I know they say like bedroom shouldn’t be where you work or your work area shouldn’t be like your rest area. When was in my. Department in. I’m actually in Florida right now crashing with the folks for a little while, but like my apartment in LA, there are times where I’d be, you know, do something in Photoshop for 5 minutes. Save and then while it’s saving, it’s like oh, look, there’s my bed. That looks nice. And then rest for a little bit, even though I only did 5 minutes of. But then the other times were I just get in the zone and hours pass by or I I work a lot with movies in the background and TV shows. And you know, I’ll stream a. You know that’s 3 1/2 hours long and work the entire time, and then by the time the movie’s over, it’s like I’ve just done 3 1/2 hours of work. You know, and then find a shorter movie and just go from there.

But yeah, I don’t do that. I seem to do either one or the. Either work for a marathon or do 5 minutes at a time.

Rob
You do the short sprints or the marathon. No in between. It’s. Yeah, it’s, it’s all or nothing.

Scott
It also depends on the enthusiasm, like some of the Blu rays I’ve worked on, it’s like OK either. Hold off and stall for a bit, or I’ll. Do it all in a day and just to get it done. But then there are others where it’s really exciting to work on and I have all the materials like at once ready to go. Know sometimes it’s also piece meal and I’m getting bits and pieces and it’s like I’ll spend a day just trying to on one thing. You know, or I’ll spend an hour just testing different fonts to get that perfect font. Yeah. Even though I try to work just with the same few fonts anyway. Or just playing. You know, if there’s time playing around because it’s often. Sometimes these things have a deadline and don’t have a lot of time and to play around and experiment. Times. There’s time and it’s like, oh, what would this texture look? What would this color look like against this color and I can test things. And in situations like that, it’s like, yeah, you can’t RIP me away from the computer.

Rob
There’s always the the question that comes up when I hear you talk about like getting the right font. For me is like. How do you know when you when you’re? How do you know when you found that exactly? What is that feeling? I I’m always I’m not autistic. I have no skill in the graphic arts. I’m always amazed by people that can do that kind of thing. Wonder what that feeling is of going OK. Is exactly what I wanted.

Scott
Well, part of it just comes with experience. And when I was starting, you know, the thing that got me in the door with the internship and kind of. Put myself, put me on the map. If only in my own little way. Umm. When I quit that design job and went back to the retail job, I read about a guy who was doing one movie poster a day for a year. Real. His own minimalist. So then I started doing. So I did one movie poster a day for a. And.

Rob
Go back.

Scott
The time you know, I go to these free font websites and download this crazy and then looking at them now it’s like. Yikes. There’s a famous designer, Massimo Vinyli, who like he tried just to work with the same half dozen fonts. And so, at least for certain things, that’s what. I try to do too. And when I’m designing something like a booklet, some of these Blu rays I’ve done 8 page booklets. I’ve done 200 page books. Some fonts are easier to read than. Some fonts, even if the size is the same, take up more room than others. It depends on how much space you have. You know, serifs are easy to read than saying serifs, you know, I always try to do a dark background over light instead of light over dark because. You know one’s easier than the other, and it also depends on the movie itself. If it’s a horror movie, I might use a certain. Versus if it’s a romantic comedy just because some fonts have that. I don’t give them personality here, but yeah, you know, some fonts look friendlier than others I guess. Even Adobe and some of these websites categorize them like this. Fonts are. You know, these are serious and so on.

Rob
I’m sure you’ve seen it, but there’s that famous SNL skit that papyrus Ryan Gosling that is one of my favorite.

Scott
Oh yeah. Brilliant.

Rob
Just SNL things. Because he’s just so obsessed with that one funk and like the yeah, the avatar.

Scott
Brilliant.

Rob
Yeah, that’s. That’s what it reminds me of is just that level of obsession about why? Why would you use that font for that movie, right?

Scott
The quick example I use, I did a poster for this short film early on that these guys on YouTube did. I think it’s actually called **** star and it’s just like a little 10 minute sketch a guy. He’s dating this girl. He doesn’t know it, but all of his friends kind of recognize her. Guess why? You know, but it’s like I’m going to give this a, you know, if the title is **** star. I’m going to make the font look very classy, you know, for the contrast of it and with the posters. If if it’s a very simple image. I’ll probably use a crazier font if the image is crazy and crowded, and there’s a lot of people or characters, whatever, then I’ll use a simpler, easy to read font, you know. So again, you know, it’s one of my teachers. Always like to say you know contrast. And it’s. But again, that’s also something you learn as you go and you see what other people are doing and you know, get inspired.

Mukund
Have you seen the new, I think the release date they are a couple of days ago, the new. Captain America poster?

Scott
Yes, I did, is this the illustrated one.

Mukund
Yes, it’s the one that looks vintage. Looks like a painting.

Scott
Yeah. No, I I like it. And it was done by an agency in in LA called Gravillis. And I haven’t worked for them, but they do great work and often with the posters, especially the bigger, you know, Marvel, DC, you know their contractual obligations, people wonder, you know, why is that actors head so big or how come the actors are in one order but? Are reversed it’s contractual. You know, even down to this person must be 25% larger than the next person, or this may must be 10% larger than this name.

Mukund
Those actors contracts on marketing and stuff, I’m assuming.

Scott
Yeah, I’m trying. I mean, there are lots of examples, but I know there was a spider man poster a while ago that you know mainstream publications were writing about because it didn’t look good. Although I think in that case it just, I don’t know, something about. Looked unfinished, but yeah, you see if you see. A poster and it’s two people and the names are above them, but the names are. Because you know the image looks better, but contractually you know, actor one has to be listed before actor 2. Even if the image they’re flipped. That they’re good. You know, a lot of people trash movie posters today, but there’s still good ones. Being done. I’m not an illustrator and what a lot of these artists do, like like a lot of the posters we grew up with, like the classic Star Wars Indiana Jones posters.

Mukund
How it’s like a drawing. Do they really draw it and like, do a graphic out of it? Or is everything computer generated stuff?

Scott
Are things that are still drawn OK and? And there are a lot of, you know, a lot of the designers of the posters, we sort of grew up with. Drew Strusen, John Alvin, Richard Amsell, Bob peak. Brilliant, brilliant artists. But there’s still people doing that. Maybe not as common. There’s a designer who I’ve had the fortune to meet a few times in La Akik. Order. She could do everything and she’s super cool and super nice. And anytime she shares a poster, I look at it and I’m just like, damn it. Like, why didn’t I think of? Plus, with posters having and, I only interned for a few months at this agency, but you know, I just remember, oh, we’re doing posters for this title and they gave me a book of 100 rejected concepts and it’s. Like and. What are the odds I’m going to come up with something that’s better than these 100 great ideas that weren’t used? Know because often it’s people within the same agency competing for the job. Different agencies competing for the job.

Rob
Right.

Scott
You know, and this is bigger high profile, you know titles and then sometimes the final poster comes out and it’s beautiful and you want to frame it on your wall. Other times it’s like. But a lot of work still goes into them. We have so many, especially higher profile. Again, there’s a lot of cooks in the kitchen. With the home video stuff I do. It. I’m doing an indie. I’m designing a Blu-ray layout booklet etc. For this indie horror film, the film Makers very much. She’ll probably have comments, but I I recently worked on this movie cruising for Arrow Video. William Friedkin, the director, passed away. So didn’t have to worry about, you know, his input, just as long as Warner Brothers approved it, then everything was OK. So there it varies.

Rob
Well, we’re talking about your work. I just wanted to if you could mention your website so people can see your work and and sort of give take an overview of the some of the concepts you’ve done.

Scott
It’s Scott saslow Comm. SCOTTSASLOW and the links to my social medias is on there as well. And yeah, it’s. It’s cool to be able to go back and. You know, look at the stuff. And that’s actually another thing I told some of the design students because when you’re starting out, all you have is your student portfolio. Unless you have some other stuff that you’ve done on the side or if you have a job while you’re a student or an internship. But I told them, you know, at some point you’re going to redo your portfolio and you won’t have any student work in it anymore. You know, it’ll happen eventually. You won’t notice. And then then you’ll notice. And that’s like you’re working graphic designer. Depend on your student stuff anymore.

Mukund
I know we are close to our time, Scott. But one final question. Today’s theme of. Self improvement and finding happiness in what you do. The graphic design that you do now and related work – is that your happy place? Are you satisfied doing? I mean, yours is more mentally satisfying. Am I correct?

Scott
Yes, and super quick example. Arrow. Same company, Arrow video, their boutique video label based in the UK. One of the guys there is producing this big Japanese a box set of Japanese films and I’m doing the layout in booklet for it. Else is doing the artwork. He’s like, hey, Scott, are you available to work on? And I I wrote. Yes, it’ll be nice to have something to work on during the holidays. And then as soon as I hit send, most people would be like like work during the holidays. Like why this is your time off. But I wanted it and I want to work on. In fact, I’m probably going to be working on it when we’re done here. Actually, even though it’s Saturday afternoon. But I like. I like doing it and getting lost in it.

Mukund
Is there a deadline you need to submit your work by for?

Scott
This particular. No, I don’t even have all the material yet. And the few clients of mine who give me a lot of my work, the deadlines are usually pretty flexible. I don’t even get one because they know like, oh, it’s Scott. He’ll have something for us in a few days, and there’s plenty of time, but I enjoy it. And again, getting good clients. That also comes with time and experience. But you know when? When they’re good clients, don’t let them go.

Rob
Yeah, 100. That’s something that a lot of people that work for themselves have that feeling of is knowing the good clients from the bad clients. And you know that experience of dealing with someone who can communicate well can give you good feedback and sort of like you can build on that. Right? That’s so.

Scott
Yeah.

Rob
That’s such an interesting concept that you only learn by working for yourself is knowing people are knowing that experience it’s got.

Scott
Easy.

Rob
Yeah, I know we’ve taken up a bunch of your time this afternoon. Been so great to speak with you and we really appreciate it.

Scott
Yeah, this was a blast. Have. I could have done three times as long, but yeah, we’ll have to do it again. It’s pleasure. Yeah.

Mukund
We’ll definitely love to have you back, Scott, if you want to. I you want to talk to us again.

Scott
No, totally, totally.

Mukund
So once again thanks. Thank you for your time. Thanks for coming and talking to us. Thank you, Rob for your time as well. And until next time you guys have a good one.

Rob
Thank you both.

Scott
Thank you.

Rob
You too have a good Saturday, guys. Bye now.