Mental Wealth Podcast

Rob
Hello and welcome to another edition of the Mental Wealth Podcast. Am Rob and here as always is Mukund. Mukund, how you doing buddy?

Mukund
I’m doing well.

Rob
You guys in the states have had an exciting time in the last few weeks, haven’t you? I’ve heard there’s been an election.

Mukund
We had a small thing called the presidential election 3 weeks ago. Almost. Been an interesting almost a month since then.

Rob
Everyone’s talking about politics, right? Everyone is asking questions about what the future. Holds and since our you. Through our previous podcast we’ve talked about. We talked about anxiety and their, their connection to mental and physical health. I thought we’d look at those in the context of the election right now, because for me, I’m in Canada just outside of Toronto. And even here I see there’s a visceral feeling of. What? What the hell is going on? Like what is next? Because this has been unlike any other election, at least in my. I’m 42 almost, and I think people are questioning what the future holds for themselves and for the US and possibly the world in general. And I wanted to sort of speak to you about that and find out. More about your experience on the ground in New Jersey and what the conversations people are having is that is that something you’d like to talk about?

Mukund
Just my. I know you have your own personal experience. The news pundits or like sooth sayers, looking into the future. We’re just trying to share our experience.

Rob
I think I’m the opposite of a soothsayer. Like if you if you’re trusting me for any kind of advice like stocks or otherwise. I’m not your guy for that. I find it really I find. Politics really interesting and I find personalities within politics really interesting because everyone sort of. As her own agenda. Everyone has their own thing they’re trying to prove. They’re trying to sort of manipulate people to see at their point of view, and it’s just really it fascinating to me. Some psychological perspective. Seeing someone like Trump, who for me. When I see him, I don’t think he has the context of what he’s saying. He doesn’t seem to be able. I don’t think he’s had an authentic thought.

In his life, he comes across as a robot, is what I’m. He comes across as someone I don’t think I’ve ever seen him smile properly, like make a joke that’s not at someone else’s expense. Be self effacing. It’s very interesting to me that this is now going to be the leader, quote UN quote, of the free world. So you know that that is something that fascinates me. What? What are people speaking about on the ground in New Jersey? The conversations you’re having. With your friends and family, what are they like?

Mukund
Well, I have friends on both sides of the spectrum by the. New Jersey, even though we are blue, we have history of electing Republican governors regarding this election. Been a surprise just because nobody anticipated a victory of the at this level. At least nationwide, almost all the states went red, obviously. So the surprise is .1. .2 is more on what is to come. That is the uncertainty. There are talks of him dismantling the Department of Education. The Environmental Protection Agency. Putting in. Colorful characters and positions of leadership that is going to shape the future of the country for decades to come, right? Not just one four year term. The impact is going to be felt for the next. Few presidents. People are worried about even though the Republican victory meant that people wanted the Republican Party to be in power. A lot of them did not think they would go through with what they have been saying throughout the election campaign.

Rob
It’s. It’s kind of interesting that the the idea that you vote for someone hoping that their thing that they’re saying they’ve said this entire time they won’t actually do usually. The. Usually it’s like, oh, I really hope they pass universal healthcare because I’ll vote left because they’ll they’ll try to do that. But I really hope what he wants to do. True, because it’s terrifying. I’ll still vote for him.

Mukund
Actually taking a step back, at least from what I have seen online and what I’ve seen, people talk and from the election results. The victory was not because of Republican winning. It’s mainly out of the Democrats who did not vote, at least compared to the previous election.

Like I think they were about 20 million people who sat out this election or some sort, lot of new entrants came in because for people turning 18 and legal age to vote. But even if you take that into account, a lot of them who voted for Biden. This one out, or rather the numbers are. Such that Democrats did not lose because more Republicans voted, Democrats lost because less Democrats. That’s what.

So if it had been, you know, the same percentage voter turn out as last election, we had a different result from at least from from what I hear. So that might be something the Democratic Party has to work on, making sure the message why did they sit out as a question that they need to?

Rob
That’s what I was gonna bring up, is it? I mean, I know for whenever you appoint someone like Kamala Harris, you have to sort of sell their story, sell their image like they did with any previous. They they they did it relatively well with Hillary Clinton, even though she lost, she already had that story built up.

Mukund
Actually, nobody knew her the past three years, she was in the shadow. Was behind the. That’s the job of a vice president, right? Like doing supporting. Functions to the president. And will be. President of something happens to the President.

So when people question, oh, you know, you are in three years in the office, you didn’t do much. Fact that she didn’t do much got a lot of air time. Then why she didn’t get stuff done? Vice President is there to fill in when the president is incapacitated or not able to do the job. It’s not the vice president’s job to pass bills and executive orders and all those things. So that’s where people I think they. They drop the ball and then from what I heard was the day of the election, they were like, did Biden drop out? Because they did not know that Biden was not running. That’s a big oopsie on the Democrat side.

Rob
And this this is what I said, like at least with like I said, with Hillary Clinton before, like they they knew her from Bill Clinton’s time as president.

Mukund
Right.

Rob
They knew who she. She had various programs at that. She wasn’t particularly popular, but they knew who she was. Knew vaguely her story. At the rotten family and all that with Kamala Harris, at least from my side, in. I before she became the nominee, I didn’t know much about. Like I vaguely knew she was a lawyer. I knew she was a prosecutor. I and I’m pretty well versed in politics, but I didn’t know that much about. So for her to come in, was it July? She came in and then taking over from Biden and had what? Two or three months really to sort of convince people?

Mukund
Exactly.

Rob
Hey, I’m the person to vote for, whereas Trump has been around. Popular culture for decades, and I think a lot of the time he’s he’s capitalized, possibly more than Obama did on Internet culture. He went on podcasts. He he spoke to people. Very directly, I don’t think he was speaking to spoke fluently about any particular topic, but he spoke directly and he said things that. At least garnered interest and engagement online and engagement was the name of the game. The idea is that Trump would say, quote UN quote crazy things not only to get attention, but also for people to sort of keep him in the news. So like a big news story would come out and also Trump said this thing. So he’d still be there even if the, you know, there was an earthquake or. Other news story you still heard about Trump because he was always doing something. Completely bananas. Whereas I think Kamala Harris obviously was more straight laced. She was a lawyer. She’s a prosecutor. Not going to be. The Democrats, obviously, they’ve got a playbook. They’ve got, they’ve got, they’ve got to play the corporate interests, but they’ve also got to play to the, to the working class, into the common people and that is that almost a basically impossible. Impossible. Balance to strike.

Mukund
Republicans, they are clear in terms of their more. They. More what you call a small government. They don’t want to. They want to restrict government spending, the free market takeover, even though it causes some. But at least they’re clear in what their goal is. The Democrats have to say, do they want big money in terms?

Appeasing the big. Or do they want to? The common man in terms of their livelihood, their standard of living, making sure that they can. Feed themselves, feed their family. Every day, the consensus is that the Democrats are missing. Miss the message already and it’s going to be interesting to see how 2028 is going to turn out. Because we still don’t. Mean. If not for Kamala Harris, we don’t anybody else.

Rob
Yeah, I like. Like. I like Pete, Buddha, judge. I like those kind of straight talking Democrats that are in your face and just like people went on Fox News and sort of chatted with people that are right wing and said, you know, this.

Mukund
But his lifestyle, I mean, I mean we are talking about a mental health on a mental health podcast, but his lifestyle is not widely accepted yet. It’s very unfortunate.

Rob

Yeah, but I would hope, let’s say let’s say hope in 2028, maybe I have too much hope in, in people in general. Like, listen to the guys speak. And for me, he’s the kind of person what it’s like. He has ideas that will make your country better. Like, I don’t care who he. Sex with like? Cool. Like you know, you’re married to a guy. You have your private life. Great. You also are a politician and you want to improve the. And you have good. I’m immediately gonna vote for you. Like, that’s that should. And maybe you know. Maybe you prefer the ideas of the Republican side, too, which is also fine, obviously. But you know. The idea that someone’s lifestyle should impact who you vote for, I know it’s naive to say that it doesn’t, but I think you’re really you would shoot yourself in the foot a lot if you vote for someone. Someone based on. You know, arbitrary things like. They’re married to or, you know, whatever else you can put on on. This is an individual.

Mukund
These are the emotional part of it comes in. Your personal emotions against somebody with that lifestyle. Impacting your thinking on how that person can improve your life. I’m not talking about people to. In particularly, but in general. It can be in anybody. It can be an atheist running the country. But if that person has common sense approach to problem solving to make your life better, why does his religious affiliation matter?

Rob
For me, it’s the thing.

Mukund
That goes to all all aspects of. One person’s life. So, for example, Trump had a lot of issues with women.

Rob
Yeah, that’s. That’s a that’s a friendly way of putting. Let’s put.

Mukund
Ordered people not support at the end of the day, if this is only consideration. They do not support Biden. At least you know they prefer Trump over Biden. But if you look at policies point of view, in what way was Biden worse than Trump and people who think that I’m talking about really only about the people who Trump over Biden? Is it that made your life better under Trump? Which? Which is going to lead into, you know, the the next part of a conversation, the impact of the next administration. The stock all that there is talk already of cost of living going up. Walmart issued a formal press release saying that the any cost increase is going to come to the end. Consumers, which is us. So his stands. On import duties and everything. Is going to impact then customer and other companies. Why would a company? Eat the cost of additional 100% tariff. Then they can just as easily pass it on to somebody else, right?

Rob
Yeah, well, it’s a. It’s a.

Mukund
And they’re there for for profit. Exactly. It’s a business.

Rob
A business. The whole. The whole point is to make a profit. Otherwise, why are you a capitalist society if you’re not?

Mukund
I can’t blame them. Mean. I mean, that’s running a business.

Rob
Yeah.

Mukund
So people knew this. And still brought him to power. And the people who brought him to power are in the states where immigration is going to get hit the hardest.

Rob
Did you?

Mukund
From one of the things I saw California, Texas and Florida, the people with the most illegal immigrants.

Mukund
Actually contributing to the economy, trillions of dollars.

Rob
Yeah. Yeah. And that’s another thing too. Don’t understand. Even illegal immigrants pay the IRS. They pay taxes on a lot of their earnings.

Mukund
This is the truth. Nobody wants to do the job that these guys are doing. We have jobs that people of this country do not want to do. Why are we not supporting the people who want to do those jobs to do those jobs?

Rob
Yeah. Or at least having I know they had the the dreamers right where they. They were what was it called? Regularizing their immigration status of people that were, quote, UN quote, illegally in the country. Kids. So they are regularizers. The status of kids. But the the new administration, or at least people that were. Being counted as leading the new administration for the immigration department are saying they’re gonna round up families and and kick them out like. Like the the hardliners that Trump is gonna appoint in theory as they get them through are talking about using the military to round up families, which is terrifying.

Mukund
Didn’t. You see, now there’s. Lot of I would say fear. That this new administration is going to do this, you know, going, you know, it’s going to be the apocalypse starting January next year. I don’t think it’s as bad as people think, but there’s going to be a very drastic shift in immigration policies. There’s going to be a very drastic shift in the education policy and, more importantly, to the Environmental Protection agencies and those sorts of things. Long term view is going to be much more drastic or much more, at least from what people know now. Then any short term release that people get my tax might go up might not go. It all depends on what I’m worried about is I’m not going to get any break in my taxes. I’m prepared mentally for that. Whatever money the rich are going to save, good for them. But. At what cost is the question?

What at what cost does the administration want to do what they want to do and why they want to do it? Would like to get an. I’m sure I won’t get an answer for this, I just want to understand the reasoning behind what they’re doing. And they. They are against science like like the logic of it. Like the comfort it gives. I like the closure it gives me for life’s questions. Without it, I’m in hopes and dreams.

So from it, that’s again, that’s a personal feeling of mine. But. And I’m not alone in that. I’m sure a lot of them. Others are also feeling the same way. A lot of unknowns than knowns at this point, which is kind of concerning, especially because my our future generations. Is future in question as of now.

Rob
You’re right in terms of the fear mongering because obviously just like anything else, the fear cells, headlines and clicks and immediately that’s going to get grabbed the attention. I can’t imagine that most people at least left-leaning people. If I was in the States right now, I would not be on Twitter. I would not be on any of these sites right now because. There is no good news coming from the political spectrum in the in the US.

Mukund
The US, it’s sort of matter about good news to the political spectrum is the noise that’s there. I know you and I talked about it like if it’s not helping you solve a particular problem, it just noise.

Rob
Yeah.

Mukund
It just like you are bothered by. It bothers you for no reason other than to get clicks and eyeballs. Is the ultimate goal.

Rob
The tricky thing for me is I I’m fascinated by all this. In general, how this US election is going to impact world? Obviously, looking at Ukraine and Russia and that kind of issue is is going to change the entire world basically for for decades to come. Based on. Happens and that’s probably one of the only reasons right now is to sort of. That that I read the news or look at these sites, Twitter, the Guardian is one of the sites that I go to regular news.

Mukund
You so you don’t do Fox News?

Rob
People move. One of my favourites. I just I I left that out because that’s obvious. I go to Fox News. While I’m eating my eating breakfast, actually I enjoy it with food. It’s such an uplifting experience to read about racism and about sexism and transgenderism and all these other isms that.

Mukund
Something that is of concern because from what I’ve seen, people have become emboldened to be more openly racist and openly discriminatory.

Rob
This is what I was gonna ask you about. Yeah, this is. Is what? This is sort of what brought me along to this idea as a. Is that you’re obviously an immigrant to the US. I’m an immigrant to Canada, but I’m a white guy. At least I don’t feel. I don’t feel any any different than Canadians generally, and I’m just wondering, you know, you’re someone who was born in India. You’re in the US for a few years. Do you think there’s a difference in how the Indian community? Feels about this kind of change in politics and then people that were born in the US would feel about this. Or is that just way off base? That not. Thing that’s happening.

Mukund
There are lots of. Load into one New Jersey is the most dense state in the country. And it’s one of the most diverse and also people are very physically close to each other. People who are intolerant of it gotten used to it. But people who are not gotten used to it are still vocal about it. I’ve not seen it. That’s not to say that I will not going forward, but till now I have not experienced it.

Rob
I hope.

Mukund
There has been some sort of silent discrimination, which I’ve seen, but it’s hard to describe. I knew that was. But I brushed it off so. To answer your question, how do the Indian diaspora feel about it? Kind of mixed. Some of them are. Some of them are Democrats. Some of them are business oriented. They can save more. Democratic because it’s more small, you know, lifestyle choice. Like umm you? They are more left-leaning, you know, let people do what they want as long as it doesn’t bother you. Kind of. Family members have their own. I’m not the business of changing anybody’s mind, just understand what it is. Diversity is what makes us as strong as we are. So. That answer your questions. Of the things that they are talking about is removing the naturalization part of it. I’m a naturalized citizen.

I don’t know how it’s going to. Me. But if it impacts me, it impacts hundreds of millions of others as well, just because most of my family are naturalized.

So mean if he if they throws out tomorrow, what’s it gonna be like? My. Family members of mine have. I don’t know if you remember in Uganda they have been through the Idi Amin and when he threw out all non Ugandans out right? Indians and Asians, but not British from what I understand. So I would hate for them to go through that again, but I’m hoping it doesn’t lead to that because it’s something we have not done and we are not kind of in a dictatorship yet to have something of of that sort implemented.

Rob
Again, I don’t like to fear monger or stir these things up, but I think if someone starts discussing these issues, if a politician like Trump. JD Vance. You know the.

Mukund
Who’s who’s night to? To an Indian. The way.

Rob
So in India, yeah. Well, is the hypocrisy of these people is is off the charts in terms of like Trump talking about family values. He’s had multiple affairs.

Mukund
Yeah.

Rob
Musk was an illegal immigrant at one point. Didn’t have a visa, weren’t. So it’s just hypocrisy all the way down. The problem is they’re going to be in power and they they can change the rule like they’re just going to change the rules, right? Then they’ll they’ll have the ball. They’ll. They’ll be the kid that grabs the ball and says, OK. Now we can only kick with our right foot if we’re playing soft because they can’t. They can’t play very well with their left foot. Going to kick with their right foot. They’re playing soccer. So that they’re the kid that changes the rules in the middle of the game. So my concern is that changing the rules now, like you said, it affects millions upon millions of people. And is it the it’s the 14th amendment. I’m pretty sure that is a naturalized citizens of the United States.

Mukund
Maybe I’m. I’m not sure about which.

Rob
Yeah, I’m not. I’m not confident myself, so I’m saying that and I could very well. Wrong. But this has been. A rule for hundreds of. It’s basically a founding principle of the United States, right? Idea that you join the country you pay taxes. You. Know how? Have a.

Mukund
So how many generations are we going to? So if they go back up to what is it like 16 hundreds, only the Native Americans have to be the sole proprietors of the land, right?

Rob
Right, exactly. I mean like logically you go back to the time like you said, where the native population.

Mukund
15116 hundred like you, you trace back ancestry. I mean, there’s.

Rob
Is thriving. Right. You you give them the land back you.

Mukund
End to it, right?

Rob
Yeah. Thanks for the all the land. We’re going to give it back to. We’ll go back to Europe and thank you very much. Done with the country.

Mukund
The past 400 years have been great.

Rob
Really great 400 years. 4 centuries. We had a good time. We made some. Now we’re going to go back to Europe and we’ll go back to our regular lives as pilgrims. I’m pretty sure that’s that lifestyle still exists in Europe.

Mukund
It’s like like playing a tape and then rewinding it slowly, right, and then see the see the the people who landed at Plymouth Rock get back into the ship and, you know, sail.

Rob
Yeah, yeah, they’ll do the the boat is still waiting for them for.

Mukund
Feel good.

Rob
Reverse. They’re just gonna go back. It’s so it’s. It’s crazy to me. They what? What again? What’s crazy to me is that they even say these words that they’re thinking of using the military to round up about the actual guy who could be in charge of immigration says I’m going to use the military to round up families and deport them. Yeah. We’ll start with the. That makes sense if you’re a criminal, you should, and you know doing bad things. Obviously you know you don’t. Don’t deserve to be in the country like. To say that about people that have been here for decades and have broken no laws is. That’s that’s craziness. And also like you said, they could contributing millions, billions of dollars to the to the economy. So you’re going to be a tariff based economy now and you’re just hoping that all of a sudden that’s going to turn prices down because you’re hoping.

Mukund
It’s going to be a mass deportation, so of illegal immigrants. Denaturalization of anybody result of illegal immigration. Tariff imposition on. Virtually everything, at least these are the economic, immediate impact on your paycheck or your spending power. Then comes your. Environmental Protection Agency education department. Your Health and Human services people come to the US for cutting a technology which we cancel care heart care. What? Not right. So what is going to happen? Is R&D not going to exist anymore? Government funded, right? If it’s privately funded, obviously the IP will stay with the companies and so and so on and so forth. That’s going to open its own can of worms. Pharmaceutical industry. There are gains, vaccinations and everything that what’s going to happen to the next pandemic level. Outbreak. We cannot rule it out, right? What’s going to happen to that? We all have to. Drink bleach.

A lot more questions than answers at this point. Least I will say questions a lot. Unknowns. What’s going to happen if you’re going to mess it up? At least do it properly so that we can undo the mess later on, right? Don’t worry it to the ground when we can’t. Do anything about it.

Rob
As you were saying before, this is not just for years. Is the Supreme Court. You know, some of these guys are going to be in power in the Supreme Court for the next 20-30 years. They’ve already got rid of a woman’s rights to choose at the federal level, and states are trying to protect it at the. Level which is impacting women. Health across the country. They’re basically deciding on an individual level. They what bothers me most is obviously there’s a hypocrisy on individual level, but they talk about freedom a lot. Talk about like we’re going to protect people’s freedom, and then it seems. They just take away individual freedom like it did. It seems like we’re saying I’m gonna. You are going to be the freest you’ve ever been, but also.

Mukund
Going to manage your. It’s not that you can be free.

Rob
Yeah.

Mukund
You can free free within our walled garden.

Rob
Yeah. These really specific guidelines you can be very free as long as you are white, straight you know.

Mukund
Exactly. It’s like, I mean it’s not. Same thing with as long as when the four started selling his cars, he said. Can have whatever colour you like, as long as it’s black.

Rob
Yeah.

Mukund
So enough of scaring. So how do you think they should? We can manage this, Rob. Any. How you have cope with it?

Rob
For me, I think it’s about collectivism which, you know, sort of. On an individual level. I am. You are powerless to to, really. Like I can. I’ve had conversations with people online that are having. There was a guy I was speaking to last week that was having panic attacks. He is in the he’s a public teacher and he has just started his. I think he’s relatively young in his 20s, but his program is funded by the federal government. So I think he’s in a sort of a special education program. As far as I could tell. And he was saying that the last six months has basically made it so that he felt his career, everything he he believed in was being taken away. Like the idea of, like, even your career. You know you want to help children. Want to educate children? The Department of Education is saying we are going to get take away the funding for special education. Which in theory that’s what they’re set. What they’re. They can go by. Is what they’re saying they’re going to do right now. And this person was experiencing anxiety because of that and experienced panic attack because of that, and obviously that is goes beyond. Career concerns like you and I have talked before about having career. That becomes debilitating if you’re having mental health reaction to this kind of thing. And what I said to them is that. You have an opportunity to work with others in that there are going to be others that are also facing that issue, he. Was afraid to reach out to people, but you have to connect with other people going through something similar and you go to a group setting and you find people that are going through something similar and sharing that knowledge. Sharing that experience has. Material as well as sort of psychological benefit, but I think that’s what it. I think if if this all comes to pass, if it what Trump is saying and what JD Vance is saying, if they accomplish these things. The response they get is going to be pretty animated from people on the left. Think they’re going to have? Groups of people strikes, general strikes. People aren’t. To. You can’t force people to do things if unless you want to reinstitute slavery. So you’re going to have a very difficult time. You know, for example, getting. The the federal tax workers to go after the people that you want them to go after, right? Going to have to force the FBI, the Department of Justice. The Secret Service, all these people, all these people that have been working within these institutions for years and years. All of a sudden you’re they’re going to be told. I know you’ve been working for the government before, but now you work for Trump. Now you serve Trump and I don’t care about the interests of the. Now I I’m hoping that a lot of these people are going to be able to. Work together to fight back against that idea might just be the government just doesn’t function for a little bit. It might be. That, you know, I I’m going to give a very boring example, but the driver’s license DMV might not function for a little bit. Might be slower and might you might not get your driver’s license renewed. People things administratively might be slower than usual. But the idea is you impede greater damage to general. I think people are going to work together to fight because people know what’s right and wrong. We all know from a young age between right and wrong. Treat people nicely. Treat people fairly. I think everyone has that. I don’t think everyone thinks like Trump. Even if you voted for him, I don’t think you think like him. I think that people are gonna be facing very difficult decisions, but I have hope that people are gonna be making the right decision when it comes down to it and a lot of these. Policies won’t come to pass because people are gonna, I don’t know, hold the system, if you want to call it. Oh, like just just prevent block. A lot of the more dangerous policies from coming to pass from what I learned of the the first Trump administration, a lot of it was his military people saying, you know what, we’re not going to bomb those people be just because you say so we’re going to we. To wait on that and we’re going to like, have more conversations. The the generals themselves have said. Trump had some ideas, but we didn’t carry out all of them because they were insane. So I’m hoping again it’s a hope, but I’m hoping that that comes fast this time around.

Mukund
Yeah, same with me. Like I said, if we really do what we are in control of. I think I mentioned this in my in our last conversation. Get involved at your local level because that has more impact than you think because is the United States of America, meaning states have its own powers and its own laws, and what can and cannot do so get involved. As simple as your local environmental group, if you’re environmentally conscious, if you want to safeguard it for future generations, your your school council. Even your local development, you don’t want a lot of real estate being converted to strip malls and everything like it’s happening in New Jersey. Get in all at the local level. It is where your tax taxes are. Money talks.

Mukund
So see where your money goes and defend a lot of things are beyond your control. Mean beyond my control. What am I going to go and talk to Trump?

Rob
Know you just go to your local McDonald’s. You might find it. You never know.

Mukund
End of. Day. Will you like it or not? Are in a. People on the left can yell all they want. People on the right can yell all they want. That white people that the person they elected is not who they want. But what I gonna do about it is I’m I still believe in the greater good that will come. Of it. There will be some change along the way. Lots of things have changed the past. 100 years in the past 50 years. Lot of. New ideas? New people coming in. Diversity has multiplied, so it’s kind of recalibrating. Maybe some people think that diversity is a problem with all immigration questions coming up. People still come here for a reason. They see value in it even with all the hardships. Not a lot of people are willing to go through the Darian Gap and through South America, into Mexico, into the US if they didn’t see value when coming to the US. So we still have something to offer to all those four souls who are actually giving up their life trying to get here. So we should be respectful of that at least. At the at the at the end of the day, we are talking about what is it, 60-70 years of one person’s life. That’s it. And then. How? What? How does any of this matter at? End of the day, right? So this administration is for four years, right?

Rob
Hopefully, yeah.

Mukund
We can come through. We came through the last Trump administration. There’s a lot of lessons learned from that one, which unfortunately the Democratic Party did not learn from. So the Republicans executed a flawless campaign, at least in hindsight. They hit all the key messages, all the key states, the key demographics. I mean, this is all deficiencies that people need to need to learn from. Back. So there’s nothing you can do now. Election is. You know who’s going to be our leader going? I think it’s time to sort out your life, see where your priorities are, and if you think things are bad, then get involved in politics at a state level. Or run for house or the Senate or something like that. Mean we’re not political consultants or? It’s just kind of two guys talking about it from our experience, the people are so unhappy, then get involved. No point in. You know, writing rude messages online or Twitter and you know it going into void and it’s just entertainment for two seconds after that. Nobody’s going to think about.

Rob
We’re not political consultants, but if the Democratic Party wants to call me, I have some ideas about what you could do next.

Mukund
I believe my vote counts. Wherever you think I can help please please let me know. There’s there’s. There’s nothing else I can say.

Rob
I’m sure you could help them mold the mic more than I could. You made a good point. I just wanted to briefly touch upon that about the idea of like. Immigrants crossing the Rio Grande coming from Mexico to make a life in the USI had to sort of sacrifice everything, right? You, you, you, you paid you.

Mukund
Exactly.

Rob
Don’t. You’ve paid someone to get across the the river. You’ve tried to get into the country and you’re you’re probably working for a farmer. You, you you know you might be working in a restaurant. You’re doing whatever under the table. It has got to be one of the scariest positions to be in, to have that constant fear of like, OK. I going to be. Am I going to be sent back and?

Mukund
Imagine yourself being in. In one of the South American countries. Or even in an African country. You your only son. Your parents are old. Can’t move. You made arduous journey to the US. Go through all those.

Mukund
Dangerous places just to get your foot through the door so that you can earnings, earn some money and send it back to your ailing parent. You die on the way. Your parents was only child, they have. You are in jail. Your parents do not know what what happened to you. I’m not saying coming to the US is the answer, but we should have the decency of at least hearing them out. Not a lot of them are the single child of ailing parents. Of them are crooks passing into the borders. They should be dealt with but. Everyone deserves their watch to be heard, right we are. Why would everybody, if you are not as great as they say we are, then why are they? Coming here and our diversity is a string that.

Rob
It’s a great point about trying to take care of their family back. The idea of like, OK, America is a place where I can earn far more. I can send it back home and it’ll be worth more if I send it back home. They like you the whole point. If I was trying to speak to. A Republican who is. Super against illegal immigration right now. What I would say is that. You’re fighting the wrong people. You should be looking at corporations and the people that are hiring immigrants at these wages because there’s a reason that they come into the country and the idea is not on the individual level. It should be about how do we. Make it so that the country can accommodate people safely and do it in a way where we’re making money and the individual is making money and there’s no risk to the individual and there’s no risk to greater society. Everyone is taken care of. We shouldn’t. And us against. Situation like I feel like there’s a lot of sort of adversarial thinking in immigration, right? Sort of like I’m my family is. I’m fine, but someone coming in May take my job, may take my tax dollars. A lot of like me against you when it really should be like, OK. With moving towards the same thing, this person that’s coming from Mexico or El Salvador, they they want the same thing I do. They want to take care of their family. He want comfort and they don’t want to infringe on anyone else’s freedom or like, take anyone taking anything from anyone else.

Mukund
To see the shoes, not about immigrants in general. Support illegal immigrants, right? Jumping the fences, what they talking about? So the one you and I talking about are the illegal immigrant ones, where the people don’t want tax dollars to go. I mean, I came here through legal ways. Came in through legal ways, right? For us to compare a person who came here illegally. And availing the same facilities that. I find a little bit of fairness in that. Yes, we should not let that happen because we did it. What about countries that does not have the? Does it mean that they have to keep entering the hardship that they go through, or should they make the illegal turn in reverse? That’s what I’m. Each person needs their story to be heard.

Rob
This should be a structure in place where if you are here illegally, it’s not just like we’re going to get rid of your grandmother. Sister, Child, we’re going to figure this out. And then help you, you know, try to if you want to stay here, figure out how that’s possible. Shouldn’t just be like. See you later. Good luck. You know, shipping people out, it doesn’t make any. To do that. There’s, there’s got to be a process for things and. Of course, if you violate immigration law, you are at risk of being. That’s just true of any sort of immigrants. Any country, of course. However, there is. It was probably. A greater proportion of the illegal immigrant population that is contributing to the American economy than any other country in the world, I would say so, you know, it’s it’s probably important to look at it from various perspectives than just like, OK, they broke immigration laws. So see you.

Mukund
It’s like as long as you don’t see the effect, or rather the impact of their dollars on you, you’re going to be against it. If you see the impact of dollars on you, you’ll be for like the positive impact. But the thing what happened was the people who voted for the new administration did not think about the impact that the farmers are going to have on the immigrant face to do the everyday job. How? How many of them are going to go, strawberry picking or orange picking? Or do all the farm Labour’s right? We don’t have enough people who are willing to do that. That is the problem.

Rob
Which is a difficult, difficult job and it’s, you know.

Mukund
It’s a. It’s literally a backbreaking job. Like. It’s very bad on your physical health and these poor guys are.

Rob
Yeah, of course.

Mukund
Willing to do it for the measly dollars that they get paid, which is much better than their lives back home.

Rob
And they’re willing to do it because they want to take care of them. They’re not doing it for themselves. I don’t think. They’re not like, it’s not like they’re gonna.

Mukund
More, but he and the right man would want to do back breaking work. Right. Construction, agriculture, any labour intensive work. Nobody wants to do it unless they are forced to do it. Home country don’t want them back. What’s going? Happen to them, right? I don’t want to think of the option just because it’s scary, even like very uneasy to think about. I just hope that it doesn’t come.

Rob
No, this is so sort of the greater big picture of the conversation because it’s scary to me, too, to think about on an individual level. They’re talking about setting setting up camps for a, quote, UN quote, illegal immigrants, how they decide who’s illegal and who isn’t is another question. Right. If someone comes up and says show me your papers, show me your citizenship. Show me your insurance. Like.

Mukund
Government, I mean hopefully not. But they can change anything so. Options do I have?

Rob
Right. Because and this is the thing. When laws changed suddenly, suddenly law abiding citizens don’t know if they’re law abiding anymore.

Mukund
Exactly right, right.

Rob
And that’s the question that I have about. A lot of these like talking about whether it’s the 14th Amendment or not. The naturalized citizen amendment to the US Constitution, like the idea that you can change something that has been. Like the Roe V Wade, that it’s like changing something decades later that has been ingrained in society. Is crazy to me, like everybody has accepted. We’ve we’ve moved on and nobody has a problem with this. The vast majority of the population has no problem with this. There was nobody asking for this. Was nobody questioning? It was just the law.

Then all of a sudden. Trump comes in and then, you know, they have the Supreme Court. So they decide to change a few things, and then they start questioning like general structural elements of society that have always been sort of accepted. And I do wonder whether. What? Again, I don’t like fear mongering, but it’s sort of like it makes you question like basic ideas about what it is that the citizenship and what what that is. Do you belong to the country? If if Trump decides you are not a citizen, are you a citizen? Like that’s? That’s the question that we’re going to be asking now.

Mukund
Right, right.

Rob
Trump is deciding these things on a whim. Legal. It’s not like legal scholars are debating this thing for decades. It’s just going OK. Today I’ve decided this is a. He’s sort of, he’s doing it by sort of royal ascent, right? Sort of deciding things on. His own weird. Impulses which. Again, I don’t like using the word dictator or fascism, but it just sounds weirdly familiar to me.

Mukund
We are two guys talking about our experience, what our thought process is. I’m sure others are thinking the same as well.

Rob
It’s it’s. It’s such a broad topic. It’s such a broad, all-encompassing day-to-day conversation starter that you can see, like I said, even where I am in Canada, it’s one of those topics. Is it’s affecting the atmosphere of a lot of places I go to like restaurants, pubs, you go and you can hear like Trump. Background like people you can hear like, JD that you can hear these words being said and just these different conversations people are having and. It’s sort of. It dilutes, I think, society in general, when these things happen and I think it’s important that like you said, you and I, we cannot. Can’t change what’s happening. Can’t impact. The election and and the political landscape at all but. I would hope that having these conversations at least shows whoever’s. We hope you are listening that these things are impulsive and it’s important that you start questioning. You know, like, why is Trump coming out with this? Law or ruling, but do what? Rule are we? What laws are we following that? Who is in charge and that? That’s the question that I think a lot of people are going to be asking who is in charge and what does that mean?

Mukund
Right.

Rob
For the next, at least four years for political. Decisions. But you know, decades to come in terms of Supreme Court and obviously the world in general. I guess the final thought for me is, you know. It’s scary. Things are probably going to get worse for the next little bit, but you are not powerless if you have a community around you and keep having these conversations, find out how people feel. In your own fears and thoughts and. Allow yourself to feel. I think is also important. Don’t. I don’t deny that, you know, we can all be macho and say like, I’m not afraid these things are. These are objectively scary things that are happening, and it’s OK to be afraid of these things happening. But just make sure that you are taking care of yourself mentally and the people that you love and people around you. Be someone that others can come to for these kind of fears and thoughts, and I think you are doing a great service to your general community. If you can be that person. Think just be helpful. Friendly and be. Supportive and make sure that your loved ones are OK and obviously. Obviously that’s just something people do anyway, but at this scary in scary times, it’s.

Rob
Important than ever, right?

Mukund
I am also of the same opinion and. As well. See what your family’s up to? Everybody is doing well, see. See how your friends are holding up in this in this turbul. So Rob once again, a nice conversation with you today.

Rob
You say, makan. It’s good speaking with you and I’m with you, man. Gonna have more conversations, I’m sure.

Mukund
Sure. So we will maybe touch up on this every couple of weeks just to make sure that you know, beyond the at least not fall into the noise. Hopefully give some constructive information.

Rob
Yeah. It’s just about more more signal than noise. More information than distraction and just having conversations. That are important in the matter and hopefully matter to whether it’s one person or 1000 people. Just important conversation that it’s always good to speak with you.

Mukund
Rob, till next time you take care.

Rob
Sounds good. Then bye for now.